State of Web3

0:00 Alors, vous vous demandez où est-ce qu'on en est du Web3 ? D'accord, tout le monde se pose la question depuis ce matin. J'ai croisé plein de gens à la pause goûter qui ont dit« on en est où du Web3? » Elle, ça, quand même, raconte-nous. Donc moi, je vais être assez limitée sur le sujet. En revanche, ce que je vous propose, c'est de rester bien tranquille dans votre fauteuil parce que nous allons accueillir Carl Anderson, qui est VP Engineer chez Ledger, et qui va nous en parler. Carl Anderson. Merci. Un coup d'enlève. Hello, Carl, and I think that this talk will be in English. Yes, the talk will be in English, but I do speak French. For the Q&A session. Exactly, for the Q&A. I'll be happy to take the questions at the end in French. No worries. Okay, so the floor is yours. Thank you very much. So that is the clicker. You know the zapet? The zapet. The zapet. All right. Very, very cool. Hang on, let me just check. How does that work?

1:00 If I click... Yep, I did that. All right, stop it. I'm not touching. Hello, everyone. It's a pleasure to be with you today at Tech.Rocks Summit. It's packed. The title of the talk says it all, State of Web3. Web3 is huge, lots of stuff to say. So I'm trying to do my best to demystify the topic today. I wanted to start with that one because that's the one I keep hearing over and over and over again. Actually, I stopped counting how many times I heard it. There's a website now counting for me now. So it has died 466 times. And it's the same with NFTs are a scam and DeFi will never work and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I think that really the idea of this talk is in 20 minutes that I give you data-driven facts as to where we are. There's plenty of stuff that are not working. Yes, there are scams. But yes, there's also lots of stuff that are working. And yes, we're going to progress in that direction. So that's the goal for the talk. I forgot to present myself.

2:02 My name is Carl Anderson. I work at Ledger. And all I'm saying is those are purely my opinions that I wanted to share with you today. And Ledger is a company that is building in the Web3 ecosystem, so that's what I do day and night for years now. Just a quick recap. Does anybody know Web3? Yeah, raise your hand if you know Web3. So that's half the room. Cool. So Web3 is just an umbrella term. I think there's really... three phases when we talk about this. Web 1, that was the 90s. That was when you were connecting to a remote server to watch a static page or Space Jam, if you remember those, with the marquees and all that kind of stuff. And then in 2005 to 2010, that's when we're starting to have the read and write internet with services as Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, the ubiquity of mobile phones where we could just go there and everybody could create content and you could also go. So it's Web 2 is the read and write.

3:03 And in parallel to all this, and it has nothing to do with the technology, on the side, in 2009, Bitcoin was born, and that's the first blockchain-based use that we saw, and it allowed to actually have an own digital value, and that was a big revolution. And from that, there's new experiences, and that's what we call Web3, which is an evolution of Web. If we fast forward 10 years from now, it'd just be Web. But right now, this is kind of how we differentiate all those things. And so back to the Bitcoin is dead that we keep hearing from journalists all the time, right? This comes because the crypto market is quite peculiar. It's a bit different from the other markets. It just goes in cycles. Because the entire use of blockchain is to store digital value and it allows that digital ownership, it always starts with prices and speculation and it creates a bubble and all the journalists talk about it, which sparks. Interests and that interest and that interest brings new people, new builders that come into space, have new ideas, start projects, do stuff.

4:07 And meanwhile, while they're building, usually what happens is that one of the speculation bubble bursts, big crisis, Bitcoin is dead, of course, it goes low. But the guys that are working actually are working on the next generation thing and the next use that you might have, which then leads to a brand new thing with prices, speculation, a lot of people coming, and so on and so forth. And so those cycles happen over and over and over again over the last, well, 15 years now, because it started with Bitcoin in 2009. And so if you take a step back and you actually look at the activity, may that be in value, in developer activity, startup activity, or social media activity, it has never been as thriving as it is today, and it just keeps growing, but in cycles. And you can see that in the bars, because there's ups and downs and changes. So that's where the Bitcoin is. dead thing just keeps coming on. So that's for the context. Now let's get into the stuff. Bitcoin all started with, that was the first blockchain.

5:11 And this kind of started an era of single-use blockchains. So at the time, it was like, oh, I got an idea. I want, you know, I mean, the Bitcoin really started with the subprime crisis. It was like, oh, no, I need to control. Banks can print money whenever they want. So I want to have my payment system and store value. And so they created Bitcoin. And then from there, a lot of people started creating a blockchain that has a single use. It could only do that. Or some of them could do like five things. And then later on, if you want to do a sixth thing, you would create another blockchain to do six things. And that didn't scale. It didn't go. And that went until Ethereum. And that's where Ethereum was so popular. And that's why it's actually the one that's most used today, is that Ethereum is the first generic blockchain. And it provides what we call a virtual machine on top of it. So it really is a decentralized computer. So you can create smart contracts and machines and programs that run onto this and can do whatever. And with Ethereum was the birth of new use cases, which we're going to talk about a bit later.

6:17 However, with the old Ethereum from 2015, that's almost 10 years ago now, The problem is it was crazy slow. Ethereum as it is, as it was at the time, was only 15 transactions per second. So it's pretty much useless compared to our databases that can handle hundreds and thousands per second. So that was the big thing, was like, okay, cool, but how do we scale it? And so this triggered a third wave, because everybody was waiting for Ethereum to scale, but they couldn't do it. They were talking about Ethereum 2.0. You might have heard, oh, Ethereum is dead. That was the 2.0 era. And a lot of people started creating new chains like Solana, Cosmos, Tron, Stellar. You might have heard of those that came from that era. And I think then this led to the wave number four, which is the one that we're currently in, where we started seeing what we call layer twos. So layer twos is actually a blockchain running on top of a blockchain.

7:21 The idea here is that you separate the state where you store the state of what's happening on the blockchain from the execution. So you can go, you roll up tons of and thousands of transactions in there, and then you persist them at once on the blockchain. So that's where we are today with two things competing, layer twos, as well as... Potentially brand new blockchains that are also generic as Ethereum, but scale much more. So all this to say that today, Web3 is and will always be, at least, maybe not, I never say always, right? But for a facility, The future Web3 is multi-chain. There's just so many developer activities, so many different things, depending on what you want to do. It is multi-chain. There's not like a single one. However, in that world, oh, and I forgot to say, just to show you, I know it's unreadable, that slide, but just to show you, those are the top 20 blockchains per market cap those last five years.

8:21 And as you can see, in the last five years, that top 20 changes from 25% to 50%. So you can really see it's really completely, right now it's just... Purely in build mode. The only two things that are consistent is always Bitcoin number one, because it's just the most reliable store of value that we have in the blockchain world today. And number two is Ethereum because it's generic and it allows you to do so many things. And that's why you have the most developer activity today. So all this to say, and this side shows the same thing as well. Ethereum continues to attract most developers, and you can see it's on a whole different scale compared to other blockchains. Yes, so layer twos, and that's just a quick one. I'm not going to go into this. There's not a single thing as layer two. There are two different streams of work going on in this protocol world. You get optimistic roll-ups, which are the most used today.

9:23 It's the already in production, and the two main ones are optimism and arbitrum. So it's a blockchain going on top. of Ethereum that are running. And the idea is to bundle up and roll up tons of transactions together. And then they all commit them into Ethereum, into a single transaction. And it's called an optimistic roll-up because they all believe that all the transactions in there are valid. And it's only if there's an error, then you roll back. So, which most of the time works well, but when you have one of those invalid transactions within a bundle of transactions, you get into a tricky situation, which are very slow to solve. So, That's where the limit is. And so that's why we work in the second generation of Layer 2s, which you're seeing right there. And the two main ones are ZK-Sync and StarkNet, but it's in full development. They haven't launched yet, and they're all aiming to launch in 2023. And so what I personally believe is in the next generation of builders are going to be happening in the ZK-proof zero-knowledge roll-ups that can handle rolling up tons of transactions at once,

10:30 way faster and more reliably than with optimistic roll-ups, but it's not there yet. So I think we're going to step into another wave of technology in 2023, 2024, basically. So that's where we are in terms of infrastructure. So that's just the protocol level, but it's useless without services and applications on top of it. And the main use of blockchain technologies today is mostly in the financial world. I mean, you all heard about El Salvador that now takes bitcoins as a legal tender. The Central Republic of Africa as well is doing the same. And in those countries, it makes total sense because if you look at their economics, a quarter, even over a quarter for El Salvador, because I think it's 27% of their GDP comes from people emigrating outside of their country and sending money back home, which is called remittance payments. And today, to do remittance payment, those international...

11:30 Payments is crazy slow and expensive. You usually have to go through a third party like Western Union that gets you a huge fee on top of this. And so when you have Bitcoin, actually, you can do that from your mobile very swiftly, no fees, instantaneous. So it's a whole game changer for those countries. And then banking systems as well. Us as Europeans, it doesn't really matter to us, but it's only about 20 countries in the world that have what we would call a modern banking system and a stable economy without inflation. So for those countries, having cryptocurrencies is actually super, super interesting to them. So a lot of them use that. The big news this year, you might have heard of FTX. Who has heard of FTX? All right. Okay, everybody, right? SBF or those. So those are what we call centralized exchanges. So really, this is the idea. We transport banks into the Web3 world because today we all paid with fiat currencies.

12:30 And so if you want to get crypto, you have to go through an exchange to use your euros or your dollars to buy crypto. And so you have those centralized entities as Coinbase, as FTX. Where you can go there and you buy some cryptocurrencies, and they're all centralized. And I think what's really interesting is because it's a brand new space, a lot of innovation, it's not really regulated. There's not the right set of agency. And to me, the key learning this year is that it really is showing its limits. So many of them filed for bankruptcy. We've got Celsius, Voyager, FTX, but there's much more than that. There's Gemini is in trouble at the minute. BlockFi died or filed for bankruptcy a couple of weeks ago. So I think it's the end of centralized exchanges and centralized finance. I guess transitioning from the current model that we have and replicating it on the blockchain is kind of where it shows its limits. Blockchains are decentralized, and so this is where we go into decentralized finance.

13:33 Same idea. However, you don't have to trust a third party. This is all done programmatically. You have smart contracts on blockchains. And this is the thing that is really taking off right now since the last two years, going from literally nothing in 2020 to where it is today. And the uses of DeFi and how we're using it today is really two types of use cases. Token exchange, so swapping one token for another. So I have Ethereum and I want to buy some USDT, for instance, so I can swap in between blockchains. And I use those smart contracts to do so. And the other one is lending and borrowing money. So I can collateralize stuff and I get some extra tokens, which allow me then to finance some activity. We're seeing more and more of those in DeFi, and those are the most used use cases. But all this to say that even though it looks big when I'm saying $100 billion, it's actually nothing. It's just the... beginning of it. And if you compare it to just US banks, that's the 33rd.

14:35 So it's actually not that big and there's plenty of headroom. And I think we're going to see plenty of innovation in that space in the coming year. Another big thing in terms of services is stable coins. So when I was talking about only a few countries in the world have stable economies, stable coins is actually the answer to all of them. Really used, especially in South America right now. We were in Argentina not so long ago. So other than that, they have 100% inflation. In France or in the UK, we're all talking about a 5% to 10% inflation. But they'd be dancing in the streets if they were down to those levels. So other than that, they're not using their currency. And they're super pleased. And they're all using, so it's mostly USDT over the Tron blockchain that they're using. Because the problem, I mean, cryptocurrencies are amazing, but because they're not backed or pegged to anything tangible, they're super volatile. So you can gain a lot of money, but you can lose a lot as well. So it's not really cool for your daily use of money.

15:37 So that's why you go into stable coins, because it's one-one with a dollar. So USDT is one-one with a dollar, but you have lots of different stable coins pegged on other fiat currencies. And so they're using those for their daily lives. So this is the big use. And I think, and same as DeFi, it's just the beginning. And I think there's real, that's why there's a real, it shows a real appetite for a digital dollar or digital euro, digital pound in the coming years to address all this market and expand. So I think we're going to see a lot of that in that direction as well. NFTs, that one is the most controversial. I love that one. So why NFTs? I think it all starts with the, it's an origin scene of the internet. In the 90s, when we created the internet, it was all about connecting remotely. and accessing to infinite replication of information, right? No scarcity and no ways of actually paying or protecting intellectual property that went along with it.

16:44 And actually, there's a guy named John Perry Barlow who wrote a paper in the 90s called The Economy of Ideas. And he basically was saying that, well, hang on a minute. If we can replicate to infinity, how, as a photographer, how can I protect my IP? And then if I can't do that and we do it to infinity, how do we monetize this network? How do we pay for this infrastructure? And what we've seen over the last 20 years, and we have the answer to that, is just it's ad business. So the biggest companies that we're seeing out there are just monetizing the content that we are creating. And they're just ad optimized and very ad efficient networks until NFTs. With NFTs, you have a tight... An NFT stands for non-fungible token. What it means on the blockchain, if you look in the code, all there is, it's just a title of ownership. It says, this address, this person owns that token. And that's it. It's just a big registry of entries like this.

17:45 You say that that person owns this. So there's this digital record, and nobody can dispute the fact that you own in that. And so from this, we have tons of emerging categories. And it kind of solved the problem that John Perry Barlow was stating initially, which is that now... Suddenly, I can own a unique picture. I can own a piece of art. And as a creator, I can only create 100 NFTs, set a price, and sell them to people direct to consumer without going with a platform. And so this creates lots of different stuff. I don't really have time to go through all of these, but profile pictures, those are the ones that the journalists love because I guess it's the most funny one. But it makes total sense. In the 90s, we all had our t-shirts, you know, Bob Marley, Run DMC, and that's how we would identify culturally to others. But in the last 20 years, our digital identity became more and more prevalent. And a way to identify myself on a network is like I can have a crypto punk, you know, because I'm part of this thing. I can have a board ape, and I'm part of this other community.

18:48 So profile pictures. Art and music, I talked about. It's about IP. We tried during the last 20 years putting watermarks and those kind of things. DRMs, if you remember those. We all tried those physical world mechanisms to protect, but we couldn't. And in the blockchains, because we have this mean to have unicity and scarcity on the blockchain, we can have a genuine single thing. Which allows for art and music. And then the thing after that is utility, because when you have an NFT, and when you have such a token, you have it on your wallet, you can connect on the internet, and it unlocks new experience. And I'm going to talk briefly about that after. Then gaming and then metaverse, all this kind of stuff where blockchain is just the economic dimension in the metaverse. But that's all it is. So I talked a little bit about that. In the web today, we have a lot of what we call free products.

19:51 But if you're not paying for the product, you are the product. And that's super important to understand. Google's business is... is our data that we're generating, same for Instagram, same for Twitter, and they're literally taking 100% of the revenue and none for the creators. So if you're a photographer, if you write poems, you put them out there, it drags traction and audience that they're going to monetize through ads, but you're not touching a single cent of this. Whereas with NFTs, as a creator or a brand, you can create your NFTs. Put them on sale on a platform, so OpenSea is there, but there's plenty others like Rarible and LooksRare and so on and so forth. You put it on there, you sell it, and 97.5% of the value is going to go to you. The creator. This is how it should be. And so that's why it was so big, actually, for creators, because suddenly all those people doing digital art could monetize their art. They could monetize their IP directly without going through the 30% from Apple and so on and so forth.

20:55 And so where we are today, even though it's just emerging, if you look at the number of creators, we're only talking about, there's only 20,000 people in the world creating NFTs today. So it's no one. It's so small. And there's only about a million wallets that we're seeing on the blockchain that are actually trading NFTs. So a million users, 20,000 creators. So it's tiny. But that generated almost half of the revenue, half of the value that gets generated from Spotify. So it's huge. So again, same idea. It's just the beginning. We don't really know what's going to emerge from this. But it's just there's an incredible amount of innovation going on there. And I'm going to see much more in the coming years. And here are just, I just smashed, I only have three minutes left, so I just smashed a few examples here of what we're seeing. Right there, the black box here, that's Instagram now.

21:55 On Instagram, you can connect your wallet as a creator, and you can, actually, even as a user, and you can share your NFTs on your profile. So I think it's just a matter of time before we're going to be able to buy them, right? So that's where it's going to go. They're going to monetize them. So you're going to see that. That's more about showing your art and your collectibles from that perspective. I thought another one that was really interesting is Starbucks that announced earlier this year that their loyalty program now is going to go through a digital wallet. So you're actually going to have a token representing your membership. And so I think it's just going to be a matter of time as well. You're going to have maybe NFTs dropped. You're going to be able to connect on their website and we'll unlock another experience on their website because you're a Mercado lover or something like that. I don't know. But it's all those. And I think there's a brand new topology that's happening right now on the web where you have two types of users, those with a Web3 wallet and those without. And the Web3 wallet, you can see that as a, it's like cookies revved.

23:00 up to the max, right? Because it's not just a cookie that is, you know, I didn't choose about it as a tracking mechanism. It's my digital identity. I'm proud to have that NFT. And because I love basketball and I have that LeBron James MFT, then I'm going to connect to the ESPN website and I'm going to have something dedicated to basketball or maybe on Nike. And I'm going to have a new experience for the Lakers or whatever. Nike is another good example. It's right there. Sorry, I was in front of it. Well, they just released Dot Swoosh right now, so same. You're going to be able to buy a Nike shoe. You're going to have an NFT that goes along with it. I'm guessing later on you'll be able to play FIFA without shoes on or stuff like that. I don't know what they're going to do, but basically they're starting to bridge, and you're going to get into this digital and physical world all together, so with wallets. And I don't have the time, but gaming is huge. Unity, the gaming SDK, just released a Web3 SDK as part of it.

24:01 So same, you know, part of the cycles. I'm thinking now that they have this ability, in a couple of years, we're going to see more and more tokens being generated in games and Web3 going in there. If you think about it, I don't know if any of you play Xbox or Switch, you know, you do something and sometimes you unlock an achievement, but that's only in the game and you spend hours and hours on there. And then when you move on to another game, it's all lost, right? So if you could earn those tokens and wear them as badges or... use them and resell them. That could be a great economy. And I put over there, so rare, it's actually a French startup, amazing one. It's like you're panning the album, but it's NFTs, it's digital, or Pokemon cards, same idea. Decentralized organizations, a huge thing as well. So second association to the max and international metaverse, that could be an entire talk as well, so I'm not going to dive into that one, but not more. So I only have 30 seconds. I'm not going to go into that. be able to do it all, but I'm going to rush a bit through that.

25:03 I think what I mean to say, and the key thing is, it is early. You're not late, and the technology is just nascent, even though it's actually sound and it's here to stay, and it works really well. And if you compare with the numbers of users of the internet, We're pretty much where we were in the 90s. So it's going to roll up. There's plenty of innovation and plenty more to go in the blockchain world. And so what's next? We talked about infrastructure. We're going to keep innovating in that sense. It's all about scaling right now. It's the main focus, scaling and environmental concerns. So this is where all those engineers are spending time at the minute. NFTs, we're going to see more and more of those. I'm thinking more and more digital representation of the physical one. We're going to earn more of them in lots of different ways, and we'll be able to then reuse them. So that's when you combine this with DeFi, you earn tokens with all the different projects, and then you could lend them or resell them, and it would be centralized finance, and plenty of other stuff that I can't even think about.

26:10 That's it pretty much. If you want to know more, because I know that I spoke really fast, there was a ton of information in there. All the data that you've seen comes from the A16Z, which is a venture capital, and they have this great report called State of Crypto Report, and you're going to see more about metaverse and gaming if you're interested in there. They got much more data there. And if you want to go further and got five minutes, FAT protocols. I love that blog post. It explains it all. And the protocol war that I kind of told you about during the infrastructure piece of this talk. You got 30 minutes. Definitely watch that video. It explains how Bitcoin works. And once you got Bitcoin, all the rest is just evolution from that. That's the basics. So that's fantastic. And if you have a couple hours, I really recommend that Tim Ferriss podcast with Nick Szabo, where they explain smart contracts and how all this works, really. It's two hours. It's definitely worth it. It's how I got into crypto myself after listening to this, actually. That's it.

27:12 Thank you very much. Merci. Merci beaucoup, Carl. On a 10 minutes pour une session questions-réponses. Oui, avec plaisir. Alors, est-ce qu'on a une première question dans la salle adressée à Carl? Oui, alors, on va vous adresser tout de suite un micro. Voilà. Évidemment, je vous demanderai gentiment, pour des raisons techniques, d'attendre le micro pour vous exprimer. Sinon, nos amis en remote à qui on fait coucou ne vous entendront pas et ce serait dommage. Merci, Carl. Coucou aux gens. Carl, do you prefer French or in English? Non, je parle français aussi sans problème. Tout à l'heure, on a critiqué les cryptos sur la partie consommation d'énergie, notamment Bitcoin, quand on parlait des co-responsabilités. Là, j'ai appris, il me semble, qu'Ethereum est passé sur la Proof of Stake en septembre.

28:13 Ça a été un succès. Est-ce que tu sais s'il y a des contraintes pour Bitcoin de faire le même passage? Et est-ce que tu sais si c'est planifié pour le Bitcoin? Oui. Alors non, ce n'est pas du tout planifié pour le Bitcoin. Et en fait, le Bitcoin, c'est un comité très particulier parce que c'est la première Bitcoin. Dans les blockchains, il y a trois trucs. Ce qu'on appelle le blockchain trilemma, qui est décentralisation, sécurité, scalabilité. Et en fait, ce qu'on dit dans ce truc-là, c'est que tu ne peux jamais avoir les trois. Tu ne peux en avoir que deux sur trois. Donc si tu fais un truc décentralisé, centralisé et sécurisé, tu n'es pas scalable. Si tu es scalable, c'est-à-dire qu'il faut que tu trade-off soit sur la décentralisation ou la sécurité. Et donc, Bitcoin, l'éthos number one, c'est la décentralisation. Et donc, d'ailleurs, il n'y a même pas d'entité. Tu ne peux pas parler à la Bitcoin Foundation ou les gens qui maintiennent ça. C'est vraiment complètement décentralisé. Et tu regardes, même s'ils travaillent dessus, c'est très, très lent. Ça ne bouge quasiment pas.

29:14 Et tout le monde a peur de toucher ça dans les Bitcoins. C'est d'ailleurs pour ça qu'en fait, il y a toute cette première wave dont je parlais, où les gens ont forqué Bitcoin, ont fait plein d'autres machins, c'est parce que ça ne bougeait pas assez vite pour eux, et ils voulaient faire des trucs génériques, ils voulaient faire des smart contracts, et ça n'arrive pas. Et d'ailleurs, tu vois, il n'y a toujours pas de smart contract sur Bitcoin, c'est des chaînes parallèles qui permettent de le faire, et qui commencent à ajouter, et c'est en train de changer, mais c'est très très très lent. Donc un futur proche, moi je ne parie pas du tout dessus, et je pense que Bitcoin justement restera sur la proof of work, donc tu as sécurité maximum, mais donc du coup ça consomme de l'énergie pour sécuriser chaque bloc qui sont rajoutés sur cette blockchain. Mais ça te permet la décentralisation. Merci Carl. Une autre question? Et d'ailleurs c'est pour ça que je pensais à un truc, Mon Slack était Web3 is Multichain. C'est pour ça que moi, je pense que ça le restera toujours parce qu'il y aura différentes blockchains pour différents use cases. Ce n'est pas vraiment une question, je voulais réagir à un parti propos où j'étais un petit peu choqué, c'est d'utiliser le nom de John Perry Barrow à côté des NFT.

30:20 John Perry Barrow, c'est l'auteur de la déclaration du cyberespace, c'est un des cofondateurs d'Electronic Frontier Foundation, c'est un des chanteurs des Creative Dates, qui était connu pour encourager les gens à copier, à dupliquer leur travail, etc. Il est mort en 2018. Je suis à peu près sûr qu'il serait totalement contre le concept des NFT qui cherchent à recréer de la rareté dans le monde numérique. Je n'ai pas dit qu'il était pour, mais je dis qu'il a écrit un papier qui s'appelle« Economy of Ideas». Ça me choque un peu. Vous ne voulez pas être choqué? Ce que je veux dire, c'est que ce que John F. Barlow disait dans les années 90, c'était vraiment dans ce papier« Economy of Ideas». Il y avait l'idée numéro une qui était justement cette abondance de l'information. C'est super, mais comment est-ce qu'on va payer pour l'infrastructure de faire ça? Et dans ce même papier, il y avait cette deuxième idée qui était, OK, mais comment moi, en tant que créateur, je peux protéger mon IP? Et en fait, on n'avait pas de réponse à ça jusqu'à 2020. Moi, je n'en ai aucune idée de ce que Jean-Pierre Barlow dirait sur les NFT. Ce n'est pas ce que je dis. Ce que je dis juste, c'était que ce truc de Jean-Pierre, qui est d'ailleurs un truc super, je m'en rappelle, c'était comme toi, c'est quelque chose qui est...

31:28 Il a des réflexions sur la preuve. Oui, c'était une vraie problématique, c'était super inspiring. Et d'ailleurs, je vous invite tous à lire le papier, il est disponible en ligne, Economy of Ideas. Ce n'est pas très long, c'est une vingtaine de pages, et c'est du génie. Et en fait, pendant 20 ans, il n'y avait pas de réponse. Until NFTs. Et je ne dis pas que c'est la meilleure réponse, comme il y a eu des DRM et des watermarks avant. Qui n'ont pas marché, mais en tout cas c'était le premier truc qui nous permet d'avoir une protection de l'IP et qui permet à un créateur digitalement de monétiser ses créations. Parce que sinon aujourd'hui si tu es un photographe, tu mets ta photo sur Insta, donc c'est cool, tu dis influenceur, il y a plein de gens, mais c'est Insta qui prend tout l'argent, c'est pas toi. Moi, je mets mes photos sur Insta. Ça ne marche pas. On a peut-être une autre question dans la salle? Burning question. Là. Super. Deux. Alors, oui, juste là. Merci. Salut Pierre de Flint.

32:32 Du coup, Ledger, c'est une boîte française, une unicorne. Quels sont les plus gros dangers pour que potentiellement Ledger ne soit plus française et plus une unicorne française? Est-ce qu'il y a des dangers à ce niveau-là? Non, on est... Non, là, pour le coup... Et d'ailleurs, le Web3, ça se passe pas tellement aux Etats-Unis. Les Etats-Unis, on consomme beaucoup, mais genre toute l'innovation, et c'est un peu comme le streaming, d'ailleurs, toute l'innovation est en Europe. Donc, on est très fiers d'être français, on n'a pas de raison de moins l'être. En certains nationalismes, Internationalized. Donc il y a de plus en plus effectivement dans nos rangs et de toutes les nationalités, je crois qu'on a une trentaine, une quarantaine de nationalités aujourd'hui, même si nos headquarters sont à Paris et on n'a aucune vocation de bouger. Au contraire, là on est en train de construire, de s'agrandir et de changer de bureau l'année prochaine. Un grand bâtiment à Paris, Paris restera la capitale de Ledger, pour sûr. Ici, c'est Paris.

33:34 Oui, exactement. Il y avait une autre question, je crois, pour vous, monsieur. Bonjour, Zach du Boncoin. On est aussi une boîte parisienne, très fiers d'avoir notre cœur à Paris. Est-ce que le Web3, en fait, il y a très longtemps, dans une réunion de FRNOG, je ne sais pas s'il y a des gens qui... Qui sont en rappel, il y avait quelqu'un qui disait qu'avant le web c'était décentralisé, je reviens à ce que tu viens de dire juste à l'instant, c'était décentralisé, c'était trop cool. Le web 2.0, on avait tous nos mails, enfin pour les plus vieux, mail at, voilà, mail at Zach en fait, pour que tu m'écrives, et le web 2.0 avec Instagram et tout, on est mail at Instagram, mail at Gmail, etc. Est-ce que le web 3.0, en fin de compte, on va redonner, on va recréer Internet, vraiment avec le web d'ailleurs, cette toile d'araignée? C'est le but, c'est justement le but de la décentralisation, c'est ce que pour beaucoup c'est ce qui milite. On parlait justement de Bitcoin, c'était vraiment cette idée de ne plus créer ces gros monopoles, ces big tech forts comme on a aujourd'hui.

34:35 C'était avoir un truc qui est sans sortie, plus résistant et qui est vraiment complètement full décentralisé. Donc il y a ce courant dans le Web3 pour sûr, mais pas que. Encore, quand je repense sur le trilemme dont je parlais tout à l'heure, il y en a pour la sécurité et la scalabilité qui, du coup, réduisent la décentralisation. C'est le cas de Solana. Solana, c'est complètement centralisé. Ou la Binance Chain, c'est 100% centralisé. C'est un acteur derrière. une entreprise derrière qui fait ça. Mais par contre, ça scale énormément. Là, je n'ai plus les TPS, les transactions par seconde sur ces chaînes-là, mais c'est bien plus élevé. Donc, dur de dire. De toute façon... Ce que j'aurais envie de dire sur la tech, c'est toujours un peu la même chose, on le voit, c'est ces grands courants de bundle, rebundle, unbundle, rebundle. Donc là, on est dans une autre phase de unbundle et à un moment, j'imagine qu'il y aura des nouveaux big four et que ça va rebundler à ce moment-là et puis on trouvera un autre truc pour debundle et ainsi de suite. On aura même des gros 4 parce qu'on parlera français.

35:38 Pardon. Est-ce qu'il y a une autre question? Il nous reste une grosse minute pour une autre question. Ou Carl peut retourner chevaucher sa unicorn. D'ailleurs, je repense à la question sur Paris. Donc l'headquarters et le... Pour tout ce qui est... Exactement, c'est ce que j'allais dire. C'est ce que j'allais dire. C'est qu'en fait, nos devices sont produits à Vierzon, dans le Cher, au centre de la France. C'est là que notre usine, c'est là où on ship de manière internationale. Et puis après, on a des bureaux à Grenoble et à Montpellier également. On a des Bruno à Londres. Et je pense qu'on va grossir aussi internationalement en Europe, parce qu'on veut que ça reste une licorne française avant tout et européenne. Super. Merci beaucoup, Karl, franchement. Merci à vous. C'était un plaisir. A bientôt. A bientôt. Au revoir.